Interview by Marcus Waldron

How would you describe your current relationship to photography?
I’ve never thought of myself as a purist, but I only like to shoot film. The foundation of my photography now is kind of everyday life stuff mixed with images of my son and family, my wife, and my dog. I make a living from photography. I think about it a lot. But in some ways, I’m not how you think of a photographer, because I’m not a gearhead, I’m not sitting there thinking about pixels or film grain or any of it really. I just do it as a personal exercise that tracks my own life and keeps me entertained. I like the feeling of going forward, but also building something in the process.

What was your first major interest or passion growing up? Was it photography, art, skating?
For me, it would be skating because we moved from a place with a dirt road to a paved road, and for some reason, I thought that was a reason to skate. And when I was doing it, there were these kind of heavy metal, Metallica type kids that were two to five years older than me. Those were the main skaters that I would see, so I kind of looked up to them as these impossibly cool people. The visuals that came with skating from looking in the magazines were really exciting to me. That was definitely a passion. For some reason, I had the will to sit there and try to kickflip 2000 times till I learned it, that kind of thing. I feel like I learned a lot just from that kickflip. It took so much work, but it was still gratifying and it’s kind of a metaphor for other things later in life.

When did photography come about?
I’m the same age, and grew up knowing Ako and Atiba Jefferson. They’re from Colorado. Atiba started taking photos in high school, and I always thought it seemed like this artsy, hard to learn thing, and I didn’t see the point in it. So I didn’t pick up a camera until I was 21, and I thought that I was starting late. The timing was really lucky because it was right before the explosion of putting images on the internet. So everyone’s shooting, everyone’s having websites and blogs. There was kind of this whole renaissance in photography that was just serendipitous with when I started shooting.

What was the first city you lived in and what brought you there?
I grew up and went to college in Colorado, and the last town I lived in was a small city called Durango. When I was there, I met kids that were from the East Coast and one of my roommates said he would give me a ticket to come visit him. His dad was a pilot, so I flew out to New. York and visited him in ‘98. Then I just moved to New York without knowing anyone other than my friend and just started living there. I got a job at a vegan restaurant and just kept going. So to answer your question, I lived in Colorado for 21 years, and then I lived in New York for 21 years.

How did you get into making zines?
I think it came from the first time I made a zine. I made maybe six copies and I gave out five of them and I got a good response. I gave one to Vice magazine and I started shooting for them from that zine. I gave one to a gallery that’s now out of business, but I got to show some work there. I just felt like whatever my sensibility was at that time was in sync with New York and what was happening, and what people wanted to look at. So yeah, I made the first zine in probably 2002, and I silkscreened the cover, which is something I’ve never done since. It was called Unscathed and it’s a horizontal zine. It was fun to do. I think that’s how I got into it. And then to follow that up, a lot of friends and colleagues and peers were getting into it or had been doing zines and maybe embracing it as this counterpoint to the internet, to always have the tangible thing.

You mentioned you started submitting some photos to Vice, how was that?
So I came to New York in ‘98 and it seemed like around then, and for a few years after, the magazines had a lot of power. There were magazines like Paper, Index, Vice, and it was kind of a big deal to shoot for them. They had a lot of cultural cachet. They would throw parties, they would host bands, and do a lot of stuff. Then Vice kind of became the one that felt like it was for the kids or something. They had an editor, Jesse Pearson and he rounded up all these photographers that he liked that were kind of shooting the opposite of maybe what a fancy fashion photographer would be shooting. It was more low tech. And through that, this kind of loose photo community formed around Vice. If you look at the old issues, there’s people like Jerry Hsu, Leo Fitzpatrick, there’s people that are skate people or skate adjacent that were shooting for Vice at the same time I was. It was just really fun to be in dialogue with all those people through that. And the Vice photo issue was a big deal.

Were you a contributor for XXL?
I have shot for them, I can’t even remember who. I shot Twista that Chicago rapper that does tons of syllables in a minute. I did a few things for them, but it wasn’t all the time. I shot for Rolling Stone sometimes.

For commercial work or to make living, how do you find work?
I’ve always been active on blogs. I started off with Tumblr and I went pretty heavy on that and then I went pretty heavy on Instagram. I’ve always done little books, zines, things like that. I feel like those kind of remind everyone that I’m active. But then the actual source of getting work has always just been through people that I actually know in person. Very seldom have I just been hit up out of the blue to do something without any sort of connection. That goes back to what I said about the community thin where you’re just a part of the community. And one of the benefits of getting little older is some of your friends become high bosses at different places or they become people that can give you jobs. I have had photo agents before. In the end I kind of prefer to not have them. When I do work, I work really hard. I try to make everyone feel good on the set, and try to over deliver.

What about your more personal or artistic work? It looks like you’ve been working on some really cool collages lately.
I’ve always in tandem with working as a photographer, taken different attempts at cracking the art world, and I’ve had moments where it’s working and moments where it’s not. I’m always working on art and the collage thing came naturally as just a boiling down of images that I collected and shot over the years. It’s a fun way for me to live with the work. It’s like this riddle and I’m trying to make it look resolved. It’s not pre-planned, I just start hacking away and listen to music and coffee up and hope for the best. I’ve developed some of my own little twists on some of the stuff where I’m using all these die cut stickers and layering images. That’s been super rewarding to work with the imagery that way. This is a side note, some of them I did for GX graphics.

What’s up with Both, the video you did recently?
I’ve seen so many videos and so many photos on Instagram that I wanted to put a new spin on it. I started basically shooting myself shooting the photos. So I’m filming myself as I’m shooting and you’re seeing the photos pop up as they’re being shot. Sometimes I’ll prop up the phone just a little bit away. Sometimes I’ll be holding the phone in my left hand and my still camera in my right hand. You’re just seeing behind the scenes and in front of the scenes at the same time. So it’s called Both because it’s photo and video. And with that one I just got really lucky to have access to some heavy skaters in my first little video.

Did you ever film skating seriously? ere were a few times the VX got popular and around ‘99 was one. I bought the camera with tips from working at a restaurant and some time slightly a er that, the death lens came out and I bought that. I’d say I  lmed for six or eight months and then decided it wasn’t what I was trying to do right then, partially because the pay was crazy low. You would try to shoot for 411 and they’d give you like $15 for a trick and $20 for a line or something. Don’t quote me exactly, but it was something really low. But what happened is I ended up making this bike messenger  lm called Pedal using the death lens, using the techniques that I’d learned from shooting skating.
There were a few times the VX gotpopular and around ‘99 was one. I bought the camera with tips from working at a restaurant and some time slightly after that, the death lens came out and I bought that. I’d say I filmed for six or eight months and then decided it wasn’t what I was trying to do right then, partially because the pay was crazy low. You would try to shoot for 411 and they’d give you like $15 for a trick and $20 for a line or something. Don’t quote me exactly, but it was something really low. But what happened is I ended up making this bike messenger film called Pedal using the death lens, using the techniques that I’d learned from shooting skating.

I was going to ask how Pedal came about. How was that filmed? Skateboard and bike?
It’s mostly big wheels on a cruiser board, and then some of it’s bike, maybe once I borrowed a moped or something. There’s a few shots that are mounted onto bikes and stuff. But yeah, it’s mostly skateboard filming because it’s mostly interviews rolling with the dudes.

You seem to have an interest in photography as art. Would you agree with that? Do you have any art photographers who inspire you?
Okay. I definitely think photography is art, but I think it’s really hard to monetize it as art. In the art world. It’s hard to sell prints. People seem to see the value in painting way more than they do a photo. I like living with photography, other people’s work. It’s got a personal feel to it. Other people that do it well that I’ve been inspired by, they’re really obvious. I looked at William Eggleston, he made The Guide, and that was enough for me to be excited about it long term. I look at cinema and films, and look at it as almost the same thing it combines photography and music and editing and all these things, and I’ll feel inspired for years sometimes. There’s an old movie Gimme Shelter, it’s an old Rolling Stones documentary. I saw that early on and just felt excited by every still from it.

Have had any shows recently, or have any coming up?
In January I’m doing a show at Gallery Target, which is in Tokyo, which I’m excited about. An old friend runs it and it’s a cool space. I haven’t been there in some years. That’ll be showing new stuff, which should be cool. And the last show was a group show in the Rockaways called The Garage.

Any advice you would give to somebody looking to get into photography?
Keep making personal work. I see a lot of photographers that do things just for brands or they only pick up the camera when it’s time to make money. But if you’re able to keep yourself entertained by shooting personal stuff, I think in the long run that becomes the most rewarding work. If you look at old photos of Gonz or something, half the photos of him are just these amateurish, not even perfect photos, maybe he’s not even doing the grab yet, but they’re kind of the best stuff. I like that kind of unpolished, keep it going, kind of vibe. I’m always looking for that.