What are you up to today Lance?

I’m at work. I’m a director of a photo studio, I shoot product and shoes all day long. It’s a Monday, so just gearing up for the week.

So where’d you grow up? How was it?

I grew up in the D.C. / Maryland / Virginia Metro area. It was the best place in the fucking world. Especially if you’re on the east coast. It had a really small skate scene, best punk/hardcore scene on the planet. Four seasons… There was ditches, backyard ramps, Lansdowne skatepark in Baltimore which was only like an hour away. It was awesome, it was a great place to grow up.

And this is like mid 80’s?

Yeah, I got my first board Christmas ’78 but I thought it was a toy you know, I was just a kid. So I didn’t really get into skating until like ‘82 when I was 12 and my mom moved to Virginia Beach. I’d go visit her every summer and there was a big scene down there, so that’s when I really got hooked. Plus I got hooked listening to punk then, so those two things in the 80’s kinda went hand in hand.

I read you filmed your first sponsor me part on a cassette tape?

Pixel vision! Yeah Fisher Price came out with this camera that you loaded a cassette tape into and somehow it recorded video onto it. It was only black and white and looked like really shitty, grainy super 8. But my buddy had gotten one as a kid and no one had a vhs camera yet, so yeah, I filmed my sponsor tape on that. I was riding for Intensity Skates, a shop in Maryland, and the owner Mike Agnew sent it to a couple companies because I was trying to get sponsored to go to an E.S.A. contest in Ocean City, Maryland. So I ended up getting hooked up by Skull, and they sent me a Josh Marlow board. Josh was a pro back then that was from Ocean City, he was rad. A vert skater, but rad haha. So I skate and can’t even remember what I got, but everyone was there. It was me, Sheffey, Jeremy Henderson, the entire Shut team, Kepper, Barker, Felix, Dune… Everybody was there! And then shortly after that contest I got hooked up by Dogtown, and then they hooked me up with Indy and I got hooked up with Vans, the whole deal…

Alright, let’s try to do a rapid fire timeline of sponsored skater in Maryland to founding editor of Slap Magazine.

Okay. Sponsored by those guys I mentioned, graduated High School… Everyone’s dream on the east coast is to go to California where it’s bright and sunny, so I got in the car with my buddy and drove across the country to Tijuana, made our way up the coast, and landed in SF. I had a friend, Tim Lane, who actually started Slap with me, who lived there, so we crashed at his house and I enrolled in SF State for film. I skated SF, met all the EMB guys and made friends with everybody. There wasn’t a lot of transplants at that time either, everyone was from the Bay. One day I was skating Fort Mason with Greg Carrol, Jovontae, and Rick Ibaseta and there were these two dudes just sitting in a car watching us. It was Mofo, the photo editor for Thrasher, and this other photographer Scott Starr. I started talking to them and they asked if I wanted to shoot photos with them. I mean fuck dude, that was the dream, getting a photo in Thrasher. We drove around the next day, shot some photos and I mentioned I was still looking for a job. Mofo calls a few months later and says the guy in the darkroom’s leaving, do you want the job? Of course I do. So I got the job in the darkroom at Thrasher, still going to school full time and now I’m working full time, taking the bus and skating everywhere. Then a year and half later at the beginning of ’92 they said they wanted to start a new magazine and they already had a name for it. They said “Slap” like the sound your tail makes when you do a lien to tail on a ramp. So in my mind I’m like, this is ’92 man, it’s all about street skating what the fuck are you doing naming it after a vert trick? Don’t get me wrong I love skating vert, but it just wasn’t happening then. So Fausto Vitello, the owner of Thrasher, hands me a credit card and says “Here you go, go make a magazine, get out.”

Did you make any zines before you moved out there?

Oh of course! I mean we grew up on Transworld and Thrasher of course. Then Poweredge came through, and that was fucking amazing. But I mean in D.C. and in the punk scene especially everyone made zines! There was KDS (Killer Dork Session) that was a big zine, my friend Josh Russel made Spud. One of my best friends Peter (Raygrave?))) made Worm, and then my friend Emile and I made Roadrash. I still have a copy of Roadrash, and a t-shirt somewhere, which is crazy to look back at. So yeah of course we made zines but it was all xerox shit, we didn’t know what we were doing, so for them to say “make a magazine” and I’m just starting film school… I had no idea what that even meant! Absolutely zero clue. So they shut me in a little room, showed me a layout board and how to cut and paste photos, text, and everything else with an exacto knife and a hot wax machine. The hot wax was so you could lay stuff down, but if you needed to you could peel it and move it around easily.

How did storyboarding work?

So basically you have a storyboard that’s a two page spread and you’d lay things out on it within a grid, kind of like a page at a time. But you’d have to realize that a “spread” wasn’t really a spread like you’d see because the way that magazines are made “four up.” Meaning you have four pages in a row, and four pages in a row on top of that, on a big sheet of paper. Then the back of that is printed four sheets, and four pages on top of that. So then you fold it once, you fold it again, and again, and again, and then you trim the top and that’s where you have pages. They don’t all really line up and this might not make sense, but if you wanted to layout page 2, right next to it would actually be page 32 because that’s just how it was going to be folded and printed and cut. So that took awhile to figure out. Kevin Thatcher, the editor at the time before Phelps, he helped me a little, but everyone at Thrasher already had a grudge against us. We were the young kids skating Embarcadero every day, we looked at them like they were old men. I mean the first issue of Slap there’s a huge article about EMB in it, where they’re still doing articles about Hosoi skating vert! It just felt so old and they hated us. Thrasher was upstairs and we were in the basement. You know, I got along with them and I shot a ton of stuff for Thrasher, I still loved Thrasher, but they just hated us.

Is High Speed like the mafia in the way they operate?

Ha, I mean I’d love to think that and it sounds cool, but no. It was run by Fausto and he was a hard-ass who liked to yell and scream and he was a fucking nutcase but in the absolute best way possible. It was really more a family business than a mafia, and a lot less corporate than Transworld or Skateboarder or any of those other magazines. We yelled at each other, we told each other to fuck off, it was awesome!

Did Slap have a decent budget or were you guys scraping by the whole time?

We were all in our mid twenties having no idea what we’re doing so it’s not like they ever said “here’s your budget” Thrasher just paid for what we did. But big picture, what we did back then didn’t cost a lot of money. Probably the most expensive part was flights to Australia, or Europe or whatever, but none of it cost a lot of money. And I never went overboard with spending a bunch of money, which I regret, I probably should’ve.

So when you were the darkroom guy, were you processing personal rolls from the photographers too? Ever see anything you shouldn’t have?

I mean you’re talking about me, Bryce Kanights, Mofo, Chris Ortiz, Joel Cherry, of course there’s personal stuff on there. Photos of their family or photos of their friends or whatever, but all those things were kind of skate related anyways. Even though I was the youngest at the time, Bryce was still only in his mid twenties, so we’re all young dudes shooting dumb shit. Did people have photos of their girlfriends naked on film? Yeah of course, it was great! I had it the best cause I could shoot whatever I wanted and then develop and print everything and no one had to see any of it.

You started in ’92, and how long were you running Slap?

I resigned as editor at the end of ’99 so I could move to LA, and handed it over to Mark Whitely. But I stayed Editor at Large until the end of 2009, so I still shot full time for them, still laid out a bunch of articles and wrote a ton. Then somewhere around 2005 I also became the TM and advertising director at Independent, so I’m doing both the mag and Indy and then somewhere in 2009 the economy tanked and they let me go from Slap and Indy all at once.

Alright, Indy and Slap are both done. What’d you end up doing?

Well after that I was freelancing, doing a bunch of shit. I worked on a documentary film as a still photographer for a couple years. I think it got nominated for an Oscar actually, it was called “Casting By.” Then somehow I got in touch with Neiratko and he hooked me up and got me a job at espn.com as their skateboard editor for the X Games, which was just… That was tough. My soul just took a hit man. Like do I really want to work for this corporation that’s just so the opposite of what I am and what I believe in? But I needed a job you know? I had a kid! So I did it thinking maybe I could add a little bit of authenticity to it, but working in that crazy, corporate, journalistic world… All they really wanted was fluff pieces on Bob Burnquist and Tom Schaar. It was tough.

So how long before you called it quits with them?

Uh, I was there for close to two years but I didn’t call it quits, someone from HR came in one day and just wiped out the entire xgames department, which was like 35 people in one day getting fired. They tried to expand way beyond their means and the higher ups were just like cut it. I guess they’re still around but I mean, who cares.

So what are your thoughts on skateboarders being millionaires, and little kids starting to skateboard in order to become millionaires?

Well skateboarders as millionaires I think is the greatest thing in the world. Good for them. You’re gonna tell me all these other people in the world can make that money but skaters can’t? We’re the gnarliest fucking people in the world! Could you imagine making millions and being able to build a ramp in the backyard of the house you own? That’s the fucking dream man! And if kids get into skateboarding thinking of money, that’s fine. Because as soon as they really start becoming a skater, they’re doing it because they love it. No matter what. You just get hooked, and money’s great but even if they lost everything they’d still skate, because you can’t stop. I’ve battled that one a lot in my head and I’ve come to grips with the whole Bam/Rob Dyrdek phenomenon. Are they kinda corny when they’re doing their shows? Yes. But if they got more kids into skating and even one percent of those kids stuck with it, then that’s awesome.

Totally. So what are you thoughts on the print industry in skateboarding? Are magazines still important?

I don’t know, ask Transworld right? Or you tell me! Are magazines important? As long as someone thinks so, then they are. But, when I was a kid all we got to see were skate mags, and some video. That’s all we knew about skaters and their style, what they wore and all that. Now, it’s 24/7 everything on your phone or your computer. When I was a kid, if I could have seen all that, it would have been the greatest thing in the world. I would want to see skating all day long so I can’t hate on technology, even though print mags are going out because of it. You know this, it’s expensive to make magazines, it’s hard to get advertisers, they don’t pay a lot. You gotta pay your designers, your photographers, your editors, pay for shipping, pay for the printer… That’s a lot of money to pay! It’s really hard to do! So credit to you guys. I mean it takes a lot. Transworld was still a major magazine, one of the two big skateboard magazines, and if they couldn’t afford to get advertisers to pay enough to make a magazine, what does that tell you? I think a lot of publications got caught up in the old guard of how magazines used to be run. Having a huge budget, offices, and staff and all that. The only way you can still put something on paper is cutting down on your overhead and really not earning anything yourself. And if you want the best photographers, with the best skaters, going on the raddest trips, someone’s gonna have to pay. And if it’s not the companies then the magazine’s gotta pay, and that’s a big expense. It’s really tough, I feel for print mags, I love all magazines and not just skateboarding ones either. Even normal magazines are becoming really expensive, just to buy one it’s like $10! If you think about it, Thrasher’s got a monopoly now. If they wanted to, they could say we can pay photographers even less now because everyone wants their photos printed through us and they don’t have any other options now.

Well that’s where Skate Jawn comes in. We’re free!

There you go! They could even go as far as telling companies they won’t cover any of their riders unless the companies pay for it. It’s a monopoly, whether good or bad. I mean I’m from the school of Thrasher, so part of me is like “fuck yeah, Transworld’s gone. We won!”

So what about favorites from when you were putting together Slap? Any trips or articles that stand out, or just dudes you loved to travel and shoot with? What about location? Best and worst skate trips.

Well I mean Barcelona was the best before it got blown out. New York in the 90’s when you could still skate through the street and you were kinda invisible. SF was kind of the same way, when it was still just a dirty playground. But I mean skating over the westside highway with Harold, Keenan, Hamilton, Pang, all those guys I mean that was just the best of times. Early Supreme, when it really was just a skateshop. New York was just the best in the 90’s. I mean I’m sure it still is in its own way. Brazil is fun, but I was always sketched out going there. I’d be fine if I never went back. Europe is Europe… I did a whole month in Spain just me and Drehobl, we rented a car and just looped the whole country. No videographer, just me and him getting drunk, we ran with the bulls, it was just fucking awesome. But honestly the best trip I ever went on was Quito, Ecuador and skated the park there. Then went to Lima, Peru and went to Machu Pichu, then up to Caracas and Venezuela. The crew was, if I can remember it: Me, Luke Ogden, Phelps, Hewitt, Jesse Paez, Archimedes, Mic-e Reyes, Julien, Karma, Greg and Mike Carrol, Salman, Cardiel, Sam Smyth, Rick Ibaseta, and Choppy. I might be forgetting someone but I think that’s it. Oh Drehobl and Richard Kirby! It was nineteen of us or something insane. Choppy was smoking on the flight there, I think Karma and Julien got in a fight on the plane, Phelps pissed his pants next to some old lady and couldn’t wake up. I had to pull him off the plane and he fell face first off the curb right as we got out of the airport. I think Karma smashed the window of a bank or something in Ecuador and got chased with a chain, hurt his ankle and had to fly home the next day. Oh Joey Tershay was there too! It was madness, and it was fucking awesome. I mean, all those guys were right in the middle of “Hell Ride” and then it was me and all the other guys and we were like, “well then we’re Hella Ride!” So it became this whole thing.

You always remember the photo you didn’t take. Got one?

Millions. I can tell you my number one right now. It was either the Rodney King riots or the Gulf War riots, cause they were right around the same time. There was like 100,000 people in SF protesting on Market st. So I didn’t go to work cause I just wanted to witness it and shoot photos. We were going up Van Ness and there was all these SWAT cops everywhere and then all these people sat down in a circle and started a bonfire that had an American flag in it that said “Fuck Bush” on the flag. I’m looking at this and I had ran out of film so as I’m loading film in, the part of the flag that said “Fuck Bush” just rises up into the sky. I just stared at it and thought “Holy shit, there’s my Pulitzer Prize.”

Brutal. Do you think anybody has as good of a categorical knowledge of skateboard photography of you?

Of course. I would say Burnett is a super skate nerd and probably knows way more than I do now. I mean Lance Mountain has an excellent fucking memory, he remembers everything. Who shot what, when, where, how. Phelps, I don’t know if most people know, but he’s got a photographic memory.

Oh he’s a historian for sure.

You could say “oh what’s on page 52 of the September ’77 Skateboarder?” And he could tell you who it is, what they’re doing, who shot it, what the caption says. I mean that is mind boggling. For whatever people think about Jake, whether love him or hate him, he is probably the truest skateboarder there is. He lives and breathes it, and that’s all he lives and breathes. That is phenomenal. He is one of a kind no doubt. It never fails that you can always fall back on Jake to be a true skater, like it or not. Great stories or horror stories.

It’s true man, I remember that hill bomb contest like it was yesterday still.

Oh man that was brutal. But I’ve seen him get hit by cabs before, he got in a gnarly accident in Australia with Monk where they flipped a car in the middle of fucking nowhere. Maybe Dustin Dollin or Danny Way’s had more surgeries than Jake, but man he’s been through the ringer and he’s still alive and kicking so you gotta give it to him man. It’s pretty fucking awesome.

Do you have any advice for us?

The one thing I learned is just to stick with it. I know that sounds really cliche, but I never cared who came or who went, I was gonna outlast them. Even though I didn’t, I kept my course. Do what you think is rad, and don’t give a fuck what anybody else thinks. Because if we tell everybody that “this is rad, and not that.” You’re convincing everybody that’s true. And there used to be so much of that, Like with Thrasher in the 90’s trying to convince everybody that vert was still cool. So we started Slap with the intention of giving the opposite outlook, and to push people in a different direction. It doesn’t always work, but you gotta try and you gotta stick to your guns instead of just following fucking Street League. You tell people what you think is rad and that’s all that matters.

*Editors note: Jake Phelps passed away a few days after this conversation. RIP to a true inspiration.