What you been up to today?

A lot of everything. Just moved back to Michigan, so that’s been interesting and cold. But way less stressful and actually a bit more fun I think. And cheaper, close to the east coast. It’s good man.

So that’s why you moved back there?

Yeah, I mean there’s more to it. It was a number of things. I’d say one was living in California, it gave me a false sense of security, you know? I felt like being out there I would be closer to companies and I just felt like it’d make everything feel easier. And maybe I felt a little more important cause I was out there going to meetings, doing all these things, which was cool but the reality is that’s not necessarily where I need to be. Inside companies people change positions, and my position doesn’t change, so sometimes being in California would be beneficial, sometimes it’s less beneficial, and then I just remember how I built my skate career without living in California. So I found myself thinking I’d be traveling less, but the reality is I needed to travel more, and then the housing prices went up way high by me, so I knew I could sell my house and make a bunch of money. I wanted to be back closer to Chicago, Philly, and New York, you know this resurgence on East Coast, this ’90s comeback and all that kind of stuff. So I said fuck it, just move back to Michigan where we’re from, and it’s kinda the epicenter, only an hour flight to Philly, hour to NY, 20 minute flight to Chicago, family and friends, cheaper properties, no emissions, no inspections. It’s just a win-win. But I forgot that winters are fucking cold dude. But you know, it gives my body a chance to heal since I’m not as active and I’m not skating as much, actually started feeling physically better.

How did the Sabotage 4 part end up happening?

That was because of Brian Penny in Philly, he really wanted me to be a part of it. He wanted me to come out to Philly, but I was so busy in California that I couldn’t get myself out there, so he was like, ‘fuck it, I’m flying out for a week.’ We’d just film some stuff at JKwon, and when you get something you get something. We just went to JKwon on a couple of Sundays, and then there was some stuff from a Chicago trip. I look at it like they blessed me with a part cause those are young guys doing their thing. I wasn’t necessarily a part of their scene, but they always included me whether it was supporting the companies I skated for or wearing the gear, I don’t know. They always showed mad love, so for them to want me in their video was cool. It was a blessing for me.

Favorite plaza that’s still skateable?

Worldwide? I think my favorite plaza worldwide is Stalin Plaza. It’s in Prague, that place looks unbelievable. I used to keep in contact with the generation of skaters before the ones there now, and then now with the kids who are up there representing now. I gotta get out there cause that place is unreal. My favorite plaza in the US is probably Muni in Philly. That shit’s a lot of fun. I skated there quite a bit when I moved back last fall. I’ll be out there all summer.

Least favorite thing to skate?
Stairs and handrails because my feet hurt all the time, ever since I was young. I broke my left foot, my right ankle, and then my left ankle. Ever since then they just hurt and I get heal bruises really easily. I don’t like jumping down shit. I can’t really skate handrails that good unless they’re kinda tall, but I can’t do long ones because I end up just being straight leg. I was never good at that shit, same with manuals.

Do you remember the first ad you had?

I do. It was an Invisible ad, I was on an Invisible tour. I think it was in Kentucky. We skated this little concrete plaza and I was doing back tail on the bench. They got a photo and that ended up being my first ad.

What magazine?

I’m not sure, it might have went across them all.

Do you still watch mad skating?

Yeah I do. I get overloaded when I’m on Instagram, man it’s hard to keep up with everything on there. Just sitting on the shitter I’ll go through the explore page and see people do the most insane shit. The things that get me are the small projects. Take Strobeck for example, he comes out with these cool little projects and nicknames them whatever. I really like watching that stuff, it’s more like art. It’s not just a random video part, not just random tricks, it’s something that’s been thought about and put together. That shit is really dope.

How do you think being a pro skater now is different than when you started? When did you go pro?

I don’t know, maybe ’97? It’s hard for me to really gauge the differences because if I were just turning pro now and 18 years old, I’d probably be super stoked and it’d be like a crazy achievement. Just like it felt when it happened to me back in the day. Being older and watching kids turn pro, it seems a little different. The whole game is just different, has a different feel to it, but I think it’s just era-based things. Kids weren’t really getting dropped off at skateparks in my era. Skateboarding is so accepted now by parents and family, whereas back in the day we were all, for the most part, outcasts and outsiders being called ‘skater fags,’ you know? It was just so different. Now it’s not frowned upon. It’s just a part of life, it’s about to be in the Olympics. It’s damn near accepted, so the feelings are different. I think there’s always gonna be the underground culture of it and a mainstream side to it. Because there’s property damage and trespassing and all those things it’ll never be fully accepted. It’s always like a ‘I love it, but not in my backyard’ type of mentality. So you’re always gonna have the underground, it’s like graffiti writing, it’s like hip hop, it’s all the same. It’s all culture-based, and it’s up to you to decide which side of the fence you want to be on.

You ever get caught at Love? Or what was the most trouble you got in?

Nah, I never really got in too much trouble. I never really got caught there. I mean, I got caught a couple times, but by that time I had already laid the groundwork on making deals with the cops and stuff like that. If a cop I didn’t recognize busted me, when I gave him my ID he would recognize my name and be like, ”˜oh go ahead and go that way,’ cause he knew that I took care of his buddies. They all wanted shoes and shit like that. I never really had too big a problem though. I saw some crazy shit, I saw cops breaking legs jumping off walls trying to catch skaters, I saw cops pulling guns on skaters, a bunch of wild stuff. For me personally, I got over the running shit after a while, when I wasn’t skating I’d just throw my board up in the tree. I was there as a non-skater in their eyes. I never really got arrested for skating in Philly, no tickets, no nothing. I know kids that got caught and they’d take them down in the train station where cops would smack em up a bit, or take their money. That was a different age too man. In Chicago I got in trouble all the time for skating, they’d put you in the paddy wagon, drive you down to the south side, dropping you off in the hope you would get beat up or something. SF, I was punched in the face by a cop while I was handcuffed to a bench, and taken to jail, but every single time in any other city I got busted in for skating, as soon as you got to court they would throw it out. Never did I have issues after I went to court. But Philly, I never got caught up in Philly. They got me on tax bullshit later. They actually extorted me, it was fucking crazy, but that’s another story.

How did you get into Philly street racing?

I don’t know, I remember I had a little shitty Honda Accord and I would race anyone on the freeway, but it wasn’t even about how fast your car was, it was about how gnarly you wanted to get cutting in between cars. I don’t even remember, I just started going to the street races so I would skate all day and then almost every night I would go down to South Philly and kick it with all the street racer guys. As time went on my cars got better and faster. It’s kinda similar to skating, you get kicked out, you run from the cops, you earn your stripes, you gain respect. Next thing you know you’re hanging out and someone wants to race you, and you’re like ”˜nah, you gotta go race those four cars first, and if you beat those guys then I’ll race you.’ I seen some wild shit down there. I seen people get killed, people flipping cars, all kinds of shit. That shit was fun.

Did cops bust that shit?

Oh yes dude. You know, I got luck on my side with that shit because we outran cops on the freeways to the point we would exit cause we had helicopters chasing us. Park in the Home Depot parking lot and walk through the Home Depot. I had my car full, KT was in there, Gee was in there, my little brother racing down Market. Doing 140 mph past Drexel and cops fucking coming out doing burnouts, coming after you and getting caught, guns put in faces. Somehow I got out of all that shit. I don’t know, maybe I’m good with the verbals, but the racing shit was out of control for a few years.

You ever do minimum wage jobs or did you just skate?

Nah, I’ve had some jobs. I was a dishwasher for two days and I quit. I was a busboy at this other restaurant for a couple months and I quit. I worked at Taco Bueno in Dallas for a month and quit. I just never could do it cause I realized I was working like 8 hours a day and it was $7 an hour back then. I kept thinking, ”˜for what?’ When I was hungry I would go to one of the buffets, and when someone was done eating their plate they would leave it on the table, we would post up and wait for a family to leave and then would take their dirty plates and go right up to the buffet. I constantly had some weird hustle on how to eat, or we would got to 711 at 2am when they would change the hotdogs to eat the ones they didn’t sell. I had ways to eat, it wasn’t too hard to figure out. Then for extra money we would just do a little hustling here and there, no selling drugs, but we would come up on things and sell them. I had a two bedroom apartment and I would have like, four roommates, and we would just figure it out. I never held a job because the small money didn’t really help for all the time it was taking to make. On the flip side, I’ve been getting free skateboards since I was maybe 16 years old. I always had some kind of product to sell. I would go down to a spot and sell a board for $25. When I was living in SF Alien Workshop was paying me $250 a month, but they sent me tons of product, and I’d take that shit down to Pier 7 and sell a couple boards, I would go to FTC and sell some wheels. I was constantly moving stuff too, so I was always able to put money in my pocket. It was the most fun part of my life, that whole deal. There was no dreams of being a pro skater, just hanging out with other skaters that were in the same situation as me. We’re all high school dropouts, we all did our little hustles and tried to have fun, get a ride to the spot or whatever it was, it was fun.

You ever get any cool presents from sponsors?

At one point DC would give Christmas bonuses. I think I got an iPod one time.

You never asked for nothing, like ”˜I need a whip with this contract’?

Nah, to be honest this might sound soft, but every contract I do I feel like it’s a blessing, and I never want to overstep because there are also certain expectations that can come along with a lot of stuff demanded. So what I bring to the table is like, ”˜look, this is me, you guys know me.’ I’m gonna do it regardless cause it’s the only thing I know how to do. But nah, I don’t need the extra obligations for that. I don’t even know if people do that. I mean, I’ve got a DC diamond ring, I’ve got a DGK diamond ring, those things that they gave out for the team, yeah that stuff’s cool. DGK gave me one of the skateboard chairs made out of Kalis boards.

Where do you have tiles from? Just Love?

Just Love and Sants, but honestly I lost that shit in the move. What I do have is two city hall benches that are currently in San Diego, but ths spring they’re getting shipped to Michigan. I’m gonna put em in our little DIY spot. One of them will be set up normal but the other one I’m gonna flip on it’s side and incorporate as a flat bar. It’s gonna be badass. I don’t know if you remember the Subzero video, Freddy does a switch flip down the 5 and then does a switch frontside blunt on the bench, but I got that. I have the the switch front blunt bench.

Back noseblunt or switch back tail?

I think switch back tail feels better.

What’s up with Blabac?

I’ll say that I’m super hyped that we actually have a story that a lot of people don’t have. I randomly met him back in Michigan when I was like 14 years old. Ten years later we re-link in SF without even really remembering. At least I didn’t, he has a better memory than me, but to link back up and end up working for the same company, helping to build something like DC for so long. That story to me is insane. I will tell you what, that dude is in my opinion one of the hardest working dudes I’ve ever met in my entire life. Not only is he out shooting the photos and being the eyeball for branding, but also going to the marketing meetings. He’s trying to explain to people how things work and doing non-skate stuff like Ford commercials and all this other bullshit that he does, and his family life and his kids. I don’t know how he keeps his shit together man. He does a lot of stuff. I give Blabac the utmost respect at all times.

Do you ever feel like people are biting your style? Like the clothes or trying to copy skate style?

Nah, I appreciate it so much because these new guys are showing so much love and so much respect, I can’t do nothing but support them. It’s helped me with longevity, and if it wasn’t for a lot of the guys on the East Coast or in London, maybe some pockets in Japan, it’d be tough for me right now. I’d be like ”˜what’s the next move? What am I gonna do?’ But what it’s done is open up a door, a whole new door for me to be there and support, almost give back, I get to give back. It’s hard to explain, it definitely helps me out so I can’t do nothing but respect that. It’s kinda like hip hop, people are getting tired of hearing the mumble raps and stuff like that. They’re bringing it back to to a culture-based type of deal, and giving LL Cool J radio shows on Sirius. It’s like 360 degrees. I’m glad these guys get to be a part of something I was a part of because that shit was dying, that whole culture side of it was dying, and these guys took it upon themselves to bring that back to life. I’m just lucky that they’re using a part of skating that I was a part of.

If you could have any super power, what would you have?

Probably to fly. That’d be badass if you could fly. Might be cold up there, but I’d be down. What would you do?

I don’t know, probably straight teleport.

That’s a super power? Alright, well, Batman or Superman?

Superman, he can fly.

Yeah, but Batman’s pretty sick. My chick would hate on you so hard for picking Superman.

Anything you’d want to see happen to skating in the future, or don’t want to see?

I think skateboarding in general is always gonna be roughly the same as it’s always been, but the way you see it may change. You know, Instagram changes heavily, the magazines aren’t there anymore. I kind of look at it like less is more now. I pay attention, but it’s kinda fucks with me when I pay too much attention cause I see too much of it and my mind gets all tangled up. It’s hard to decipher what I like and what I don’t like, just trying to let skateboarding live. From a business side, I would like the industry to figure out how more skaters can make better money because I feel like in the late ”˜90s and early 2000s there were more skateboarders that made better money whereas now the gap is bigger. There’s only a handful of people that make a few, couple hundred grand a year, and then there’s a whole fucking ton of them that only make a couple thousand bucks a month. I don’t know, that might just have something to do with society in general, because I think that gap is doing the same thing in the regular people’s world. I remember you had tons of people that had pro shoes and pro boards, and you walk into the skate shop and there were 30-40 different shoes. Now you walk into a shop and see lots of different colorways and stuff like that. I don’t really see progression on that side of it, and that was a lot of bread for people. I think a lot of people might be missing out on legacies, not the DC legacy, but you know, when you’re done skating what you get to look back on. That’s what I miss.